‘What a waste of time and money!’ Frustrated drivers slam Wales’ ‘baffling’ and ‘stupid’ 20mph limit with punishments only handed out for speeds of 26mph and above
By Eirian Jane Prosser[1] and John James[2] and Tom Bedford[3]
Published: 18:14, 8 January 2024 | Updated: 19:22, 8 January 2024
Frustrated Welsh drivers have slammed the ‘confusing and stupid’ 20mph a limit that will only see motorists going 26mph and over slammed with a fine.
Police say they will apply a ‘common sense’ approach but it has only added to drivers woes over the new speeding laws.
The outcry comes as outgoing First Minister Mark Drakeford said that drivers who break the limit will not be punished if they are ‘genuinely confused’ by the new policy.
The comments, which sparked fresh uncertainty for drivers, came after it emerged that enforcement fines will only will only begin at 10 percent of the speed limit plus 4mph.
The cost of new 20mph road signs has been estimated at GBP34m, money which taxpayers say could have gone to the NHS[4] or be used to repair potholes on Welsh roads.
Retired carpet retailer Keith Mason, 75, was one of the 450,000 drivers who have signed the petition against the 20mph zones.
The grandfather from Nelson, Merthyr Tydfil, said: ‘Only in Wales could they come up with something as confusing as this. The Main Street where I live is like a car park some days, traffic doesn’t move. When it gets going it’s like a funeral procession.
‘I have a clean license but anyone who drives for a living is going to have problems.
I don’t mind 20 mph around schools but it’s silly on main roads where drivers can use their common sense by driving at the right speed for the road.’
Marianne Lewis, 62, from Llandrindod Wells, said that the police where she lives ‘haven’t got much to do but enforce the new speeding law’
Retired coach driver Roger Thomas, 77, was so incensed by the new laws he went to see Dawn Bowden, the Labour member for Merthyr Tydfil in the Welsh Government
After a ‘bedding in period’, the default 20mph speed limit in built-up areas in Wales will be enforced from today
Andrew Williams, 55, from Merthyr Tydfil is a member of the Institute of Advanced Drivers and has been caught speeding just once in his 37 years on the road.
He says the new limits are ‘confusing’
The speed limit came into effect in September but locals say many have gone back to driving at 30mph because of the confusing messaging on the new rules.
GoSafe Wales, which connects the Welsh police and local authorities together in a road safety network has said that the enforcement of fines will only begin at 10 percent of the speed limit plus 4mph.
This is more leeway than is given to other drivers in Britain where motorists are subject to an enforcement threshold of 10 per cent plus 2mph, making the limit for a 20mph zone 23mph.
Support worker Adele Spiller, 44, a mother-of-three and BMW driver from Tonyrefail, South Wales, said: ‘It has been a waste of time and a waste of money, especially if they are going to review it soon.
‘The GBP34m spent on new road signs could have gone towards a new hospital. The thing is, no one is sticking to 20mph and it came in four months ago. Now they are saying it’s 26 mph – it’s confusing and stupid.’
Food and drink consultant, Andrew Williams, 55, from Merthyr Tydfil is a member of the Institute of Advanced Drivers and has been caught speeding just once in his 37 years on the road.
The father-of-one from Merthyr Tydfil said: ‘It is confusing, the speed limits change so often you are looking at signage and checking your speedometer all the time – if a child or a dog ran out …
‘A 20mph zone is fine around schools and that could be extended a bit but to have 20mph carte blanche is way too much.’
In Wales, the enforcement of fines will only begin at 10 percent of the speed limit plus 4mph
Mark Taylor, 65, a retired operations specialist in a titanium plant said the 26mph fine defeats the point of the 20mph rule
Support worker Adele Spiller, 44, a mother-of-three and BMW driver from Tonyrefail, said the GBP34m spent on the new 20mph signs could have gone to a new hospital instead
South Wales police commissioner Alun Michael told the public ‘this is now the law, let’s make it work’, however, Jeremy Miles, the Labour politician tipped to take over from Drakeford, has promised a review into the 20mph limit if he gets the job.
The change in Government has led locals to question what will happen when Drakeford’s incumbent takes office.
Plumber Luke Domi, 28, came to the UK eight years ago from Croatia but only recently moved to Wales.
He said: ‘I have a clean driving license and want to keep it that way but it will be difficult.
‘It is confusing and will help them issue as many tickets as they can. I have an app which means I can warn other drivers about mobile speed traps. I think lots of people in Wales will be doing that.’
Mark Taylor, 65, a retired operations specialist in a titanium plant, said: ‘When it first came in I thought it was going to hold me back.
But over the last few months I’ve timed my journeys and they take about an extra minute. So I’ve changed my mind.
‘But it defeats the object if they are saying it’s 20mph but you can get away with 26mph. That’s the speed everyone will now do.’
Secretary Marianne Lewis, 62, from Llandrindod Wells, said: ‘Where I live the police haven’t got much to do but enforce the new speeding law.
Retired carpet retailer Keith Mason, 75, was one of the 450,000 drivers who have signed the petition against the 20mph zones
Plumber Luke Domi, 28, worries the new speed limits will make it difficult for him to keep a clean driving license
The Welsh government has confirmed motorists will face sanctions if they exceed the limit
‘When you’re driving you’re looking at the speedo all the time.
It’s is confusing – I wonder what will happen when Mark Drakeford steps down?’
Retired coach driver Roger Thomas, 77, was so incensed by the new laws he went to see Dawn Bowden, the Labour member for Merthyr Tydfil in the Welsh Government.
He said: ‘That was a waste of time. I think the 20mph limit is disgusting – they should have spent the money on repairing potholes or the NHS.
‘There’s two 20mph signs gone up in Merthyr Tydfil and the road is a dead end with no one living on it. It’s a joke.
‘I went to see Dawn Bowden but all I got was a leaflet about it saving lives.
It could cost lives because people are checking their speeds all the time.
‘Now they are saying you can drive at 26mph, it’s totally confusing. Even if you go over that the police can stop you and say: ‘You’re a very naughty boy’, but not book you. No one knows where they stand with it – we should go back to how it was before.’
Asked during a press conference in Cardiff about the possibility of people being fined because the messaging over the law has not been clear enough, Mr Drakeford said: ‘I don’t think they will be fined in those circumstances.
‘I think if the police find somebody driving above 20 miles an hour and the reason is because they are genuinely confused about that, then that’s why the police will always start with education and conversation.
Mark Drakeford suggested drivers will not be fined if they were ‘genuinely confused’
The policy was the most controversial and un-popular decision Mark Drakeford’s government made
‘I don’t think in those circumstances of genuine confusion, the police will move to enforcement.’
The First Minister conceded that the policy should be ‘fine-tuned’ and kept ‘under review’ to ensure consistency across different local authorities throughout Wales.
There have been ‘anomalies’ in its introduction, he said, including with road signage which some drivers have complained is unclear.
Mr Drakeford said that in cases where motorists drive ‘well above’ the limit the law would have to be enforced.
Asked to specify what speed would be considered ‘well above’ 20mph, he said previous cases relating to pre-existing 20mph zones had involved people driving ‘closer to 30 than 20’.
‘Not a couple of miles over, but well in excess of what people were obliged to do, so if that’s a sort of rule of thumb I think that’s how the police have interpreted that so far,’ he said.
It comes as pro-motorist groups label the new 20mph limit ‘unenforceable’, and question why the policy was introduced in the first place if drivers will still be allowed to reach speeds of 25mph before being slapped with a fine or points.
But ministers said not all drivers breaking the 20mph limit will initially be prosecuted, just the most dangerous offenders.
Roadside teams will use speed monitoring equipment to catch offending motorists.
They will be stopped and given a choice between a fine and points, or roadside engagement.
Go Safe Wales has also said magistrates will only deal with excessive speeding of 40mph or more under the rollout.
Ian Taylor, a director at the Alliance of british Drivers told MailOnline the policy could well be unenforceable due to costs.
He said: ‘The lower you make the limit, the more difficult it is for people to actually keep to it and probably means they’ll want to do it less anyway.
‘This means there’s always the potential there for prosecutions. As regards to them saying over 26mph for prosecutions, it’s ironic as that is sort of the limit.
‘They think that imposing 20 mile an hour limits brings the average speed down to but if it’s 26mph regardless you wonder why they bothered!
‘The whole policy could end up being unenforceable it depends how much it’s liable to cost them to enforce it properly.
The Welsh government has confirmed motorists will face sanctions following an ‘initial bedding in period’ (File image)
‘Having said that if they enforce it enough, they might make the money they need to pay for it from the fines.’
Speaking to the Telegraph, Peter Fox, the Welsh Conservatives’ minister for finance warned that the confusion was likely to result in more fines.
He said ‘It’s confusing out there especially if you are visiting Wales.
‘With 20mph being the default limit, together with unclear and inconsistent signage, it would be easy to lose a licence in a day.’
A spokesman for GoSafeWales said: ‘Enforcement can only be conducted at the discretion of the Chief Constable of each force. GoSafe, in conjunction with the four police forces in Wales, will issue a statement ahead of wider enforcement taking place.
‘This should be the first point of call for accurate information, along with our website.’
Roadside teams will use speed monitoring equipment to catch offending motorists (File image)
The Welsh scheme to reduce the default speed limit for ‘restricted roads’ from 30mph came into force in September, affecting 7,700 miles of road.
It aims to cut deaths, noise and pollution and encourage people to walk or cycle.
There was confusion around when the new national speed limit would be enforced.
It was said that enforcement would begin three months after the new speed limit was introduced, which would have been December 17 before the Welsh government confirmed the enforcement for the speed limit would begin in January.
The speed limit reduction to 20mph affects ‘restricted roads’ – those with ‘street lights spaced no more than 200 yards apart, usually located in residential and built-up areas’.
Transport is a devolved matter so the Welsh government has made the change unilaterally.
According to its own impact assessment, the ‘main economic dis-benefit’ of the new regime ‘relates to increased journey times from lower average vehicle speeds’.
It states that this could result in an economic hit of up to GBP9 billion over 30 years; the cost of implementing the scheme will be GBP33 million.
But Wales’ First Minister Mark Drakeford said the 20mph speed limit would save lives and the cost was ‘outweighed’ by reduced impact on the NHS and emergency services.
Mr Drakeford has said ‘the evidence is incontrovertible’ that ‘driving more slowly in built-up urban areas saves people’s lives’ and that it will save the Health Service GBP90million as a result.
He cited a similar scheme in Spain, saying it had cut urban deaths by 20 percent.
Critics say penalty fines will hit drivers who already face larger petrol bills for running their engines at lower – and less efficient – speeds.
References
- ^ Eirian Jane Prosser (www.dailymail.co.uk)
- ^ John James (www.dailymail.co.uk)
- ^ Tom Bedford (www.dailymail.co.uk)
- ^ NHS (www.dailymail.co.uk)